Name: Banking’s Next Evolution: What Crypto & Digital Asset Adoption Means for Your Institution
Uploaded: 2025-10-06T09:01:04.966Z
Duration: 43 min 36 s
Description: Banking’s Next Evolution: What Crypto & Digital Asset Adoption Means for Your Institution

Transcript for "Banking’s Next Evolution: What Crypto & Digital Asset Adoption Means for Your Institution": Good morning, everyone. I wanna thank you for joining us for our webinar this morning. A few pieces of housekeeping before we get started and before I hand it over to our moderator. First, if you'd like to ask questions, you can see the q and a section on the screen to the right. If you're interested in further research and resources, you can click on documents. And, of course, if you're interested in having a one on one conversation with anyone at Fireblocks about how we can introduce stablecoins into your business, you can click the request the demo set button at the top of the screen, and we'll be here to help you. With that, I'm going to hand it over to Nameer for the today's conversation. Nameer. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Christy. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Nameer Khan with you. Welcome to this Fireblocks Microsoft webinar on banking's next evolution, what crypto and digital asset adoption means for your institution. Now over the past year, digital assets have shifted from experimentation to execution. We all have seen that some of the world's largest banks are now in production phases, tokenized deposits. We're looking at stable point pilots and cutting frameworks that are being implemented, also in UAE as well. Now today, we are joined by two industry leaders driving that change we have done with us on Fireblocks, a global pioneer securing over $10,000,000,000,000 in digital asset transactions. And then we also have Tiffany Carpenter from Microsoft who has been guiding major banks through their next generation of digital infrastructure. Once again, I am the Nameer, and I'm the chairman of the MENA Fintech Association. It's one of our largest fintech bodies, founder of Bills, which is a singularity infrastructure. We leverage blockchain that enables banks, FIs, which is not insecure, trusted green banking solutions. And lastly, I'm an honorary professor in Hidden Brothers' School here at Boston University. Now before we dive into the main discussion, I think it's worth setting the stage for everyone that we get listening. First of all, thank you for joining us, especially for those who might not who might be new to this space. Now, John, maybe you can start us off for those who aren't familiar with FirePods. How would you describe what you do in a few good words, especially from banking perspective? Sure. Thanks, Anurag. Good to be on with you and Tiffany. So I guess at a at a base level, Fireblocks provides security rate infrastructure for companies who are building in digital assets. We're a platform that's been around for a number of years, with over two and a half thousand institutional customers. And, essentially, we enable you to do three things, really well. The first one is to be able to to custody digital assets, the second one is to be able to issue them, so if you're issuing a new type of instrument. And the third one is transfer. And then essentially, we we build these cases on top of that thereafter. The way you think about it is in the banking context is kinda similar to a core banking system. So we provide base level infrastructure to enable banks to build digital asset businesses. So whether that's Bank of New York Mellon, the largest custodian bank in the world, launch crypto custody, whether you're a neobank like a Revolut or a new bank offering crypto to customers, or whether you're working in the the stable core related space like a Bank of Columbia. We provide that infrastructure to enable companies to to build on the blockchain and hoping to get into more of those topics as we go through the discussion today. Thank you, John. And Tiffany from Microsoft side, you're powering much of the world's financial infrastructure behind the scenes. And, how would you describe Microsoft's tool when it comes to enabling digital assets and AI task solution for banks? Thanks, Nameer. Thank you. So, I'm sure I don't necessarily have to introduce Microsoft. I hope most people have heard of us at least. I'm a senior industry adviser in, global banking team at Microsoft, and I bring over three decades of experience in financial services. And, in particular, our team focuses on innovation, digital transformation, and the strategic application of, like, emerging technologies like AI and and blockchain in the, banking industry. So, industry advisers at Microsoft, our role is to bridge that gap between technology and business outcomes. So we're not talking technology just for technology's sake. It's all about driving those business outcomes. We work very closely with a lot of financial institutions across The Middle East, and Europe, help them to reimagine customer experiences, optimize their operations, and unlock new growth opportunities. So, typically, it means, you know, translating some, you know, very complex technological capabilities into practical high impact use cases, that will drive those outcomes. So whether that's crypto trading platforms, improving risk management, or driving agentic AI adoption. So super, happy and a pleasure to be on this joint webinar with Fireblocks, a very key partner of Microsoft today, and really looking forward to sharing insights on how banks can navigate, this evolving digital asset management. Perfect. Thank you. And that's a great foundation. So now that we understand the roles both of your organizations play in this shift, let's talk about where we actually are in the adoption journey. And, John, from your global lens, where are banks right now on this journey? What makes this cycle different from the previous ones that we have seen around crypto or blockchain? Sure. Thanks, Nameer. I think if you were to look back two years ago to to where we are today, I think the amount of progress that's been made has has been quite stark on the on the banking front. I think there's a number of kind of key, kind of themes or or reasons behind that over the course of the last twelve months. And the first one is the the US administration, and then regulatory clarity coming from The US. So we've seen with the Genius Act being passed in The US and also with the the forthcoming market structure and clarity act bills that there's a very clear regulatory framework now in The US to adopt. And and as we know with many technologies, when The US leads, the rest of the world then follows or perhaps has more of a competition. I think the second one is that there's actually been regions that have been in the lead over the course of the last year as well. So if we see The UAE, for example, as a very big market, we've got clarity from Vara as the first digital asset regulator in the world and also from the AGM. So there's a lot of, I guess, interesting projects that have been built out of The UAE, which are really industry leading. And then we have Europe with MiCA being passed this year as well. So from a regulatory lens, we're certainly in a in a place now where banks have that level of clarity to be able to build. And then I think the third thing then is the technology now compared to where we were in the last cycle has evolved quite a lot. So pieces around transaction scalability, the security of different platforms, the the ability of of different companies to build with, that certainly changed a lot as well. So we're seeing a lot of the projects now going very quickly into production, and that's something which for banks is paramount. Right? Because, to be able to prove the commercial viability of a use case in the first year is many times what's required in a business case in the banking side. And now we're at a stage from both a use case and a regulatory perspective, but also from a technology perspective that where that's feasible now in a year. So I think compared to the last cycle, I'm very optimistic about the growth that we're gonna see in the banking sector and very optimistic about The UAE as a market to drive a lot of that growth globally. Brilliant. And, Tiffany, from your discussions with banks in The UAE, I mean, just taking up the point, John, and globally as well, are digital assets now a board level agenda item or you would think it's still a part, spot in the innovation team somewhere? Yeah. I think, you know, it's interesting when we talk about, you know, this wave. I think, you know, this isn't just a speculative, area. What's different about kind of previous waves here is I really think this is the next evolution of the bank's core services. You know? So if it is for decades, they've managed deposits and lending. Now, as John said with the new regulation and technology, they've had the opportunity to really manage those same services but on new rails. So, that's gonna help banks be more efficient, more secure, accessible twenty four seven. It's gonna help them reduce settlement times, lower the operational costs, and create new revenue streams. So if we think about why now, you know, there there's a there is definitely custom customer demand, and, you know, it's an opportunity for banks to really remain competitive and meet their customer expectations. So I think, you know, this is definitely now, definitely a a board level topic rather than, just a, you know, a kind of a a trials and errors as it were. They've moved kind of from I think we were in a point maybe a few years ago to, you know, an innovation lab type, type testing. Whereas now, I think what I'm seeing is leaders are focused on some key questions. Like, how do we generate new revenue streams? How do we future proof our business against, you know, some of these agile competitors, fintechs, etcetera? And how do we do that securely? So, you know, these these are the sorts of questions that, you know, our partnership with Fireblocks can actually answer digital assets, become so powerful, and we're providing that really robust solution to address all of those questions. I think when you talk about revenue lines, and forward level conversations, that typically means that it's not just a tech cycle or another tech cycle. We're looking at institutional moment. And I'm of course, we have today we all know that institutions have been playing a particular role, in the growth of this sector, which naturally brings us to the question of regulatory readiness. Because no matter how mature for the technology is, the framework needs to keep pace, and John did touch base on that a little bit, with the genius act and many other interesting, you know, regulatory plays that I've been having. Now we all know that we are fortunate in this region to see remarkable progress, through The UAE, via WADA, ABGN. The central bank has built one of the most progressive ecosystems globally. John, how is this translating on the ground when you work with Axia? Are is regulatory clarity and compliance helping accelerate production deployments to what we have seen from prior? Absolutely. I I think it takes away the question mark of whether, you know, you can do something which from from any banks over the course of the last couple of years has has really been the first question and the stumbling block that we've seen for for many different projects. I mean, if you take the kind of three main use cases that we see in banking, the first one is custody. The second one is probably around stable points or tokenized deposits, and the third one is around the tokenization of assets. So they're kind of the three main use cases that we see. And if you take the regulatory regime, both under VAR and ADGM, and also being led by the CBUE, you essentially have clarity around those three use cases. So maybe just to take a couple of examples. If you talk about banks launching custody, so we've seen NeoBanks in the space, Liv and Weo launching, crypto trading operations. So there's clearly regulatory clarity around that particular use case. And we're seeing a lot of interest from the pillar banks in launching similar use cases over the course of the next six to twelve months. I think secondly then, if you talk about the tokenized money use case, you're seeing stable coins and tokenized deposits being very relevant use cases and discussions that we're having with banks. If you look at stable coins, the FAB announcement with ADQ is a very good example of how a bank can play into the space. And then if you're talking around tokenized deposits, there are a lot of discussions we're having at the moment with pillar banks around cross border payments use cases. So definitely another area of clarity that we have, in The UAE market. And then third, if you talk about the kind of real world asset tokenization use case, which is one which has long had, you know, a lot of, a lot of interest, but perhaps not a lot of action. If you see the real estate tokenization use case in The UAE, that's something that we're seeing as well in production. Project around, you know, real estate tokenization is a good example of another one where there's regulatory clarity there. So if you take the three major dealable use cases, three, very, I guess, production ready use cases, and you've already got, you know, multiple companies in The UAE who've who've got into that space. So I think absolutely the regulatory clarity is proving, that innovation can happen, and that companies are are moving into the space, and into production quite quickly. That's interesting. And, when we we talk about, UAE in general and you can see if the erosion deployment Stephanie, my question to you would be that Microsoft works closely with regulators and globally, and you've been working with financial institutions across the market as you've been advising them. What you are seeing from, your lens? Like, how is The UAE and GCC's approach differentiating from The US and Europe? I think that's, super interesting question because, in in our role at Microsoft as industry advisers, we work globally with all of the major banks around the world. And what I'm seeing when I compare what's happening is The UAE isn't following global trends. It's actually settling. Right. There's a huge map of innovation and optimism, I think, in this region. Banks are moving definitely with a sense of urgency. There is a clear market demand, and, as John said, there's a very, very supportive ecosystem from the regulator, central bank, and the government. And so, you know, I think there's a huge opportunity in The UAE to really set, some of those trends that some of the other global banks can can look to. And it's such an exciting time in this region, and I'm really pleased to be talking to a lot of the banks on this very topic. No. It's, I I totally concur with what you're saying, on setting the standards versus following them. And with my recent, engagement with the public offices, this has been the mindset, top down. And and, of course, I think, with with clarity comes competition. So let's talk about how banks are balanced in this space to innovate, with the need to protect, trust and reputation, which is critical. As John touched base on a few use cases, which we will go deeper down. Some use cases such as, Ubidio Bank, we're looking at some other bank that have launched their own trading platform as well. Now as digital assets has become a part of the mainstream banking, and I've seen multiple banks have these conversations, some of the banks are in process of finalizing their the suppliers and the providers. How should institutions at this point be thinking about competition, especially given the potential for unfundling traditional services. Right? And that's happening at a very rapid pace. John, how does this impact regulation reputation and risk management? What are the biggest challenges banks face from your lens when moving from experimentation to execution? Because for some of them, this is an open space. It's a green space. Yeah. Absolutely, Nameer. So I think digital assets is kind of unlike any other technology which has been integrated, in the banking ecosystem, and I think it takes a real mindset shift to understand what's required, to play a large role in this ecosystem. And let me kind of explain this by by an example. So rather than having core infrastructure, which is running between banks, you've got the core infrastructure, which is essentially the the different block blockchain platforms that you run with on. So outsourcing technology or outsourcing that access to those levels of infrastructure being the blockchain platforms, is something you would traditionally do, in using traditional technology, but in the digital asset space, it's something which is which is quite powerful. By essentially having direct access to the blockchain, you essentially get access directly to the information and the analytics, and then you also have the ability then to interact with the assets and create different assets. So that's kind of a mindset shift for a lot of technology teams and that you need to have access to the to this kind of infrastructure at a base level. So I think having and building core and common infrastructure to access these different blockchain ecosystems is kind of a mindset shift. So rather than going from, one product on payments to another product on, crypto custody, having a base level infrastructure that enables you to essentially connect in a seamless way across different divisions is a buying decision, which is slightly different than traditional technology decisions that you have within the bank. So I think, you know, relying on partners like Fireblocks on the infrastructure side and and Microsoft on the kind of cloud of AI side enables you to essentially go from POC to production using infrastructure, which has been scaled across all these cases, which is kind of an important way for for banks to kind of think as you're building in this space. It's not a single use case or a single product that you're building for. It's a base level infrastructure and capability that you can use to essentially go from POC to production across different use cases in different divisions across the bank. So I mean I mean, is it fair to say that, the bigger risk I mean, what's the bigger risk? Doing it wrong or doing nothing at all? I think it depends on the use case. Right? Obviously, from our perspective, you know, being on the ground and speaking to banks on a on a daily basis, we think, you know, being a being a first mover or a fast follower is definitely the position to be in. But I think from a reputational risk perspective, certainly, you know, building infrastructure yourself, trying to kind of build it in house and scale it out, we've seen that not working in the digital asset space. So I think being very having a strong level of conviction around the partner that you choose to enable you to scale is very important. So I think it's not necessarily a moving first or or moving afterwards, but not having the, the need in the longer term to then replatform your infrastructure. So I think, you know, making the technology choice at the start is kinda critical in in building out these use cases from a But then you mentioned something very interesting, John, on on the use cases. Right? So you you mentioned a few use cases. You mentioned stable points. You mentioned tokenized deposits. You you spoke about real estate real estate tokenization. You spoke about, Fireblocks, you you, you know, stable coin initiative. Mhmm. What about cross border payments? Have you seen any any use cases that are built around cross border? Yeah. I think listen. Cross border is a use case that we see a huge amount of interest in. Payments as an industry for Fireblocks is kind of our faster growing segment that we have, over 400% growth per quarter this year. And the main use case which is driving that is the cross border payments use case. So working with companies with Bridge and MoonPay, also working with companies like Zodiac Markets on the FX side, you know, we are seeing a lot of those use cases being being developed. And The UAE being such a big hub for people working and then remaining money, that's a it's a really big use case that we're kind of discussing with a lot of the pillar banks. So that cross border use case on the retail side, but also on the cross border use case for the commercial side. So think of large companies like a DP World, for example. They have, you know, operations across many different jurisdictions. Could they potentially use stablecoins to settle money in a more efficient way across some of those markets. You know, these are the type of use cases that we're now discussing with the pillar banks to provide as a service for their clients. So certainly cross border payments is a is a big use case that we're seeing in many discussions. But they do a double points. You you mentioned stable points. Exactly. I wanted to, double click on that. Now if you're talking about stable points, John, definitely to both of you, how are banks starting to frame stable points internally? I mean, for those who have and those who are looking to, it's gonna be very useful for them to hear this response as well. Are they viewing them as a payment rails, liquidity tools, or a new product line? How are the banks seeing it? Yeah. So I'm happy to jump in, Tiffany, and and, to take a first stab at it. Yeah. So stable coins are interesting in in the sense that they're they're one to one backed assets. So the way that a bank would traditionally treat deposits is on a fractional fractional basis. Yeah. So I think banks are looking at stablecoins as a new use case or a new means for certain payments use cases and tokenized deposits as a way to defend the core. And a lot of those questions that we're having with banks are around stablecoins as a new type of asset that fits certain use cases and tokenized deposit as a way to update core infrastructure. And let me kinda use a a couple of examples. A stablecoin related use case could be settling on a crypto exchange, for example. So a lot of the flows that would be in USDC and USDT, for example, which are the two largest stablecoins, are around, remittance retail flows and also around settlement on crypto exchanges. So a lot of banks that we're speaking to around the stablecoin use case are looking to partner with exchanges to have their AED listed Stablecoin as a payment method in these, as in in these examples. So working with, and speaking to exchanges like m two, for example. If we talk about the tokenized deposit use case, that's more akin to traditional deposits. So what we've seen from JPMorgan and Citibank in launching their tokenized deposit use cases, we're now discussing with many banks in The UAE around similar use cases where they can deliver for corporate lines. So So being able to control moving cross borders between different jurisdictions. So the use cases for stablecoins and tokenized deposits tend to differ. Stablecoins being more open, tokenized deposits being more closed loop. So having a strategy around adopting both for banks in this space is something which is very important. So I wouldn't look at them as, as competing assets. I'd look at them as two parts of a strategy around tokenizing money. I mean, that's I'm and thank you for differentiating between stable coins and tokenized deposits, in terms of, the the core perspective. And my question to both of you would be yes. Tiffany. Oh, sorry. I was just gonna I was gonna agree with John, you know, in the conversations I'm having, you know, banks are not just looking at stablecoin as a new payment method, but as John said, just to modernize and protect their core. And I think this whole idea of capturing new revenue streams is really, really strong. And, there's three three drivers that I three drivers I hear, over again. So first of all, efficiency. So I think when banks are looking at stablecoin, they see the opportunity to, you know, dramatically reduce the cost and time of cross border payments, which we should talk about, and those b two b transactions. Innovation is the second one. So, banks are looking at Stablecoin as a bridge to that that new digital economy, and they wanna be, the trusted on ramp for businesses that need to pay suppliers in in digital currency or financial firms that want to clear and settle transactions on the chain. And then thirdly, it's the competition, as we've mentioned. So, a lot of banks recognize if they don't offer stable coin services, then their customers will go to the fintechs or the crypto native companies. And so it's a matter of staying relevant and competitive. So I think, you know, from a business perspective, that's what we're hearing from some of the banks when they're considering stablecoin that those are the three drivers that they've that they are typically considering. So if we double click on revenue, I mean, how are banks at this point looking, to make money from this space? Can we do a double click on that, please? Specifically around stablecoins or in general across the other use case? No. In, specifically about stablecoins and tokenized bonds. Yes. Sure. So I I guess if you look at stablecoins, it's kind of, three different buckets of revenue that we see. So the first one, which is the the kind of most straightforward one is that, you know, you have to hold the reserves of Stablecoin one to one. So Stablecoins are one to one backed, tokenized deposits are fractionally backed. So there's an opportunity for issuers of Stablecoins to essentially get revenue on the reserves. So typically, they're held in government bonds. They can be held in in cash accounts. So at a very basic level, that net interest margin that you have on the reserves is is the easiest one. If you look at Tether, 160,000,000,000 market cap, 5% of that, roughly is in profits. Pretty much the most profitable company in history in terms of the number of employees. So that's number one. Number two is offering traditional services for stablecoins. So offering things like crypto custody, offering prime brokerage services, essentially layering on the traditional services that you would have for this new asset and potentially given that you're a bank charging a premium for that. So that's a a second piece. And the third one is around kind of the ecosystem play. So, you know, many times when you're launching a stablecoin or offering those services, you're partnering with other people in the ecosystem. They could be crypto exchanges. They could be local, payment providers, for example. So the ability to share revenue with those institutions either on a per transaction basis or on a revenue share basis as kind of a third element that we're seeing on the Stablecoin use case. So really that's kind of the the key driver. When we look at tokenized deposits, it's very much on the efficiency play. So how can I move money in a more efficient way? How can I potentially not use the correspondent banking system for certain corridors? And that's more of a cost saving play that we're seeing around tokenized deposits. Banks can obviously offer the traditional services for these types of assets as well, but the stable coin play is a is a clearer path to revenue in in many cases for for banks to issue. Brilliant. And I think that's an important point oh, sorry. I was gonna say there's an important point here for banks as well because, you know, stable coins can be issued by anyone, often backed by reserves managed by a third party. But I think, this is an opportunity for banks to bring their most valuable asset to bear. Most banks have built up over many years huge trust with their customers. So I'm gonna trust a bank rather than trust, you know, a, a a new kid on the block, let's say. So, I think instead of just using a third party, stablecoin banks can leverage their existing licenses and that reputation and trust that they've already built to create a, you know, far more secure and a trusted form of digital money for their clients. So I think there's a real, opportunity here for banks to bring that trust and use that as a lever for for revenue generation. So, Tiffany, as I mean, if you if you zoom out now, we spoke about several coins. We spoke about tokenized deposits. Let's talk about another joint in the boardroom today, which is artificial intelligence. The I mean, this conversation is dominating boardroom agendas just as much as digital assets. So I would love to connect the two. So with AI being such a massive strategic focus, how are banks balancing both AI implementation? Because you cannot avoid that. And digital asset development. Are they complementing each other? Are they competing for for priority? Is it a hybrid methodology that we have to look at? What's your view on this, Tiffany? Yeah. Really a common question, actually. My perspective is that there are two sides of the same coin. So, you know, digital assets, and blockchain are the new rails for value transfer, and AI is, is the engine, let's say, that can make these rails intelligent, secure, and and efficient. Mhmm. So, you know, digital assets really are about the what. It's a new financial instrument, an asset, and, you know, they they they represent that fundamental shift in how value is created, stored, and transferred. And AI, it really is about the how. So I see that as the intelligence layer that makes this new ecosystem smarter, safer, more efficient. So if you think about if you think of a bank, as, you know, a bank's building a new digital factory, the digital assets and the materials that are being moved on the assembly line, let's say, and the AI is a bit like that advanced robotic arm that automates and optimizes every step of the process. So I think they both come together to create the smarter bank. And, you know, when when AI and digital assets are integrated, that's when they become most, impactful. So, you know, there's a number of areas where we can touch on, security and risk management. So, obviously, this is a crucial point for all banks. The biggest concern with digital assets is security and compliance, and AI is one of the keys to managing that risk at scale. So it can analyze millions of on chain transactions and real and detect anomalous behavior, identify potential fraud, flagless activity, etcetera. So, you know, there's an example of the two sides of the same coin working together to protect the bank and to protect its customers. Well, you just answered my next question. I was I was I was actually about going to ask you this question on how AI plays role in compliance and risk assessment and operational efficiency. These I mean but but as these rails new rails are built, These new rails that are being built and established. Right? So, John, I mean, my question to you would be, in that case, to also contribute to this that what would be some of the areas where AI can be used by financial institutions while they're building these rails, and leveraging AI for compliance, for risk, for operational efficiency? Sure. I think, you know, Tiffany probably better place to talk about the the kind of applications of AI from a I guess, a lot of what what we're seeing and when we're engaging with institutions and kind of building on what Tiffany has said, you know, a lot of the the pieces that we're putting in place are kind of access to the kind of core rails and then people are building these spaces, you know, on top. So we're seeing interest in kind of AI agents, for example. So AI agents were, you know, managing money. That money in cases are are stable points, for example. So, you know, we're working with, with certain customers that we have around that use case, essentially enabling them to connect to the rails and then kind of building that logic up. Another interesting use case is kind of around how you track and train the AI models. So, you know, we're seeing a lot of interest as well around how blockchain can be used as kind of a a source of truth around the legitimacy of certain models as well. So we're seeing that as another use case. And but I think, you know, the majority of stuff that we're seeing from a Fireblocks perspective has really been driven by money movement. And then I think, you know, they can automate some of that on top with the kind of AI agent pieces. It's kind of the main one that we're seeing more. Thank you. So And then I can I can oh, sorry? I was just gonna say I can touch here on, you know, you mentioned operational efficiency when you're setting up these these solutions. You know, implementing a digital asset business involves a lot of new processes. So Right. Think about your you've got to onboard customers. You've got to reconcile transactions. So AI and agentic AI is already being used across banks today to automate customer onboarding, reconciliation, etcetera. So it can also do that in a in a digital asset world, reduce manual errors, free up employees to work on higher value tasks, etcetera. So I think, you know, all of those processes around, onboarding customers and and working with customers. And then, you know, it's really important with about how do we personalize that customer experience in the same way that we do today for, you know, regular, regular assets, digital assets. It's the same thing. AI can analyze the customer data, transactions, and it can provide those personalized insights, product recommendations, etcetera. So there there's a huge amount of AI use cases, and often, they're the same use case that we've been implementing over the last year or two, but we would tend to implement in this, arena as well. So let's close the loop with something more actionable. Right? So we've discussed multiple, elements over here. For banks that have not started yet, I mean, I would I would love to discuss where they should begin. There are some of the institutions that are still observing from the sidelines. My question to both of you, what are some of the most practical entry points for these financial institutions? Is it custody, organization? Or starting off with as basic as internal policy frameworks? Sure. I'm gonna jump in here. You know, I think from my perspective for for banks, you haven't started in the space. The the best way to go about it is is to trial use cases and improve the concept. I think what what I mentioned earlier around, you know, wallets kind of being the kind of key driver here for many use cases, at a very basic level, digital asset use cases, access to a blockchain, the ability to create a wallet, and the ability to manage a key. So, you know, being able to get your technical teams comfortable with that while thinking about the business use cases is essentially what a proof of concept is. So whether it's whether you've got a big custody business or whether you're a big, correspondent bank, for example, the use case chooses itself in that regard. But, really, it's getting your hands dirty with the technology at the base level to kind of build up that capability. So I think, you know, that's kind of number one. So, you know, getting your hands dirty. Number two is to look at this from an infrastructural perspective around core technology. So that's essentially mapping out for each of the different use cases where you have, essentially different digital asset components which are required. And then number three is kind of the business case. So while you're looking at these proofs of concept, ensuring that you can actually get to near term value of something which is very important. So from a banking perspective, you know, having the capability to be able to go and ask for that money and know that you're gonna make it back in a certain time scale. So I think whether that's working with a a partner like a Fireblocks or a Microsoft, whether that's working with another bank in the ecosystem who's already built that capability, doing something is better than doing nothing. And the three things you need to are test the technology, choose the use case, and then essentially build a business case. So, you know, that's the recommendation that we'd give for a bank who hasn't moved to this space. And and and Tiffany, from your perspective, like, I mean, you have been crucial in providing infrastructure. Speed to market, looking at scalability and security, extremely critical when you're working and launching, anything linked to digital app. So how can AI and cloud architecture help banks launch safety while remaining at the same time compliant? Yeah. And, you know, I think to echo John's point, you know, if if this is, a a bit a bank just starting out and wondering where to start out, I would first of all say don't try to build the entire platform in house. Work with companies who have experience like Fireblocks, like Microsoft, who've done this before, who can who can guide you to make sure that you can you get that speed to market but in a secure way. Obviously, the infrastructure is not just a supporting element. It's a very foundation, and that's gonna determine a bank's success in this space. You definitely need a robust cloud and AI infrastructure. That's gonna allow you to move from a pilot, as John suggested, through to a secure, scale scalable, profitable, use case and and and revenue opportunity. You know, as you said, like, a cloud is gonna give you the ability to get to, speed to market and also the ability to compete, faster Yeah. And better. So, you know, you don't have to spend months or years procuring the hardware and building out your data center. You can use cloud platforms like Azure with the compute power storage network in the next dramatically reducing your time to get this type of, use case to get new digital asset products off the ground. It also gives you the ability to do, you know, rapid prototyping and use that test and learn approach. So particularly, you know, as we've said, start with a use case and and test and and and learn. The best place to do that is cloud because you've got kind of that that agility, to iterate, on those use cases. And then you've also got the ability to scale, as I said, with the elastic capacity of cloud. And, you know, for companies, for banks with international ambitions, cloud also provides that global footprint as well. So, you know, infrastructure and your infrastructure considerations have to be have to be a a foundational part of the use case. But I would always say start with the business case, not with the technology. But as soon as you've identified that business case and the business happens you want to try, that's when you then go right now. Well, what technology and what infrastructure will we need to deliver the outcomes? Makes sense. Well, thank you, Tiffany, and thank you, John, both of you. I think we did cover a lot of ground today. But let's start with some forward thinking thoughts as well, some closing thoughts as well. From what I've actually gathered, the shift digital assets is not technological. The first thing that we discussed is is it another cycle, Or is it, really a momentum that is gonna grow? So it's just not, a cycle. It is definitely a structural evolution in our in how finance is operating today. Banks that do see this as a compliance checkbox will certainly at least slow moans slowly. We need to accelerate them. They need to accelerate, of course, by working with the right partners as mentioned by Tiffany, just now. And, those that see this as a strategic capability will I think they'll be ahead of the curve. So they will certainly lead the way of financial innovation. And, we are at this turning point, where it's a huge equalizer what AI is doing, what digital assets is doing as well. I just want to basically quickly ask, do you both have any closing thoughts, John and Tiffany, before we close this, really insightful session? Yeah. I think, you know, agree with everything you said, Nameer. And I think, you know, in short, what we're seeing is this digital asset journey is is no longer a question of if and should we, but, how and when. I think the time to act is now even if it's just exploring and talking to people in the market, just to to understand more if you don't understand, and to reach out to, you know, partners like like Fireblocks, like Microsoft, and others to to understand what's what support can a bank get. But I think, you know, banks in The Middle East, as I said before, they're not watching from the sidelines here. They're really perfectly positioned to lead this next evolution of finance, with all of the ecosystem support that you have here. So I'd really encourage anybody that's not already started on this journey to, you know, to to start, thinking about how do how do they get onto the journey. Absolutely. I'm gonna echo those those words from Tiffany. I think, you know, from our perspective, we've over 90 banks as customers of Fireblocks, which is kind of running through leading in terms of the numbers. So if there's a bank in The UAE looking to build in this space, we would only have a use case in production at scale with another bank, whether it's within The UAE or in another region. So being able to essentially walk a bank through what that process looked like, what the setup was, what the business case was, I think it's quite a unique value proposition that we have. So the call to action will be if there's any banks who are looking in the space who are thinking about what to do, then we're very happy to to come in and kind of have that discussion along with partners like Microsoft to kind of, you know, build full solution from an infrastructure perspective that can deliver on that road map, which is, you know, I think very important. So, you know, the technology is ready. The use cases are being proven. It's a matter of, you know, making the investment and having strategy to deliver on. I think, you know, it's a very exciting period for the banks and The UAE over the course of the next couple of years as they look to actually scale out these businesses. Thank you. Thank you, John Hallahan. Huge thank you to both of you, to John and Tiffany for sharing your deep and practical insights. It was quite educational for me as well. And I'm sure for the audience as well who joined us. With this, I would like to thank everyone who joined as well. And I hope you found this really, really insightful, and we look we look forward to being in touch with you all. I'm sure the, the panelists here, John and Tiffany, can also be accessible via the LinkedIn handles too. I'm Nameer Khan. It was a pleasure hosting you all, and we look forward to more insightful conversations moving forward. Thank you for joining us.